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Post by Icon Lord Sean "Magic" Fiery on May 17, 2008 19:31:48 GMT -6
Goldberg worked in WWE? Lmao...
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Post by Icon Lord Leon Corbin on May 17, 2008 19:38:21 GMT -6
Haha! That was more about Lesnar I was on about, Goldberg I couldn't care less about lol...For me, the biggest comparison to Lashley is definitely Lesnar, I'm just saying why I think that is and that's because Lesnar worked, same as why Cena works as he's coming off more and more like a new wave Stone Cold...especially the last time he came to the ring on the mic...very Austin-esque.
But yeah...Lashley...just not saying it for me, I'm afraid...it actually took me ages to even notice he'd gone missing.
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Post by Icon Lord Jon Kellar on May 18, 2008 11:34:11 GMT -6
The other thing we're forgetting is the main reason Lesnar got so over so quickly... Heyman.
Seriously, if he hadn't had Heyman as his mouthpeice pushing him as the "Next Big Thing" then he may well have been another Snitsky or Heidenreich.
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Post by Head Booker on May 18, 2008 11:45:34 GMT -6
which goes back to my original point about the hype machine of WWE...if they really want a person/character to get over...they will make it happen...that's one thing the Evil Empire has over other companies (better production is the other)...which means that if/when Lashley ends up in TNA he'll works a few programs...get a little bit more exposure and then be called back up to WWE...of course this hinges on if he would even work for them again...as it was he who quit WWE not the other way around...
Tate
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Post by Icon Lord Jon Kellar on May 18, 2008 11:53:52 GMT -6
I think his girlfriend was involved too... which didn't work out so well for Ol' Jerry Lawler. I still picture that day as being like that scene from the Simpsons where Homer comes to get his job back and has to crawl through the smaller door covered in dust. Substitute Mr Burns for Vince (easy) and Jerry Lawler for Homer  |
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Post by Head Booker on May 18, 2008 12:10:56 GMT -6
yeah his girlfriend (I think wife now) took a stand against runnin' in a sexist type program...she was released and Lashley took the high road (somethin' I applaud him on) and quit as well...
Tate
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Post by Icon Lord Jon Kellar on May 19, 2008 5:23:11 GMT -6
Oh no dispute from me on that front, but you know that if they split up and other projects don't work out Lashley's just going to come crawling back with his tail between his legs.
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Post by Icon Lord Leon Corbin on May 19, 2008 6:48:16 GMT -6
What a fool...When you are someone like Lashley whose career shouldn't ever be considered and you get an opportunity like he has for a company who loves your look, who does not require you to really wrestle, who will pay you more than any other company in the industry...you drop the bitch and grab your chance with both hands...Those chances do not happen often...
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Post by Rico on May 19, 2008 8:12:29 GMT -6
I find it funny, that we talk about guys who can't wrestle, but we still pay to see them....you can say that you are paying to see other guys like Edge, Taker, 3H, HBK etc....when when you watch a ppv, you still sit and watch the particular wrestler that you hate....
But still, Lashley was good in the ring, I know it's a matter of one's opinion, but do you guys have to be so hard on him. I don't remember anyone comparing Lesnar to Goldberg when the two just like Lashley/Lesnar are very similar in the ring, but the complaints of Lashley ripping off Lesnar/Goldberg are ringing like Church bells, I don't get it.
Yea, the guy is similar to the other two, but to call him a rip-off thats just going overboard. No one said anything about Jeff Jarrett, when he acted like Ric Flair, no one called him a rip-off. The finisher, the strut(while not exactly the same, it's still a strut)
Lashley actually had better speed than Goldber/Lesnar, thus making him different than them. Goldberg/Lesnar were slow in the ring, Lashley used suplex's but look at the background he came from, same as Lesnar, so they are bound to use suplex's. Sure Goldberg uses the spear, so does Edge. Does that make him a rip-off. Kurt Angle uses the multiple German Suplex's in which he borrowed from Benoit and the Ankle lock in which he borrowed from Ken Shamrock.
The Rock uses the Sharpshooter in which he borrowed from Bret Hart, Chavo uses the Frog Splash and the Trifecta in which he borrowed from Eddie. Rikishi uses the Belly to Belly suplex and Bonzai drop in which he borrowed from Yokozuna, Orton uses the Diamond Cutter.
What I'm getting at is that we talk about one person using the same moves as another and we call him a rip-off, but you have other guys who are more successful at BORROWING moves and we call them original. Lashley, while he may have his flaws as does every wrestler, should not be labled a rip-off just because he does 2-3 moves that another person before him used. Lashley is not as terrible as you people are making him.......I don't even talk about "That other guy who can't wrestle, but being shoved down our throats week in and week out, whom also just made JBL look very very very very very weak at Judgement Day" as bad as you guys talk bad about Lashley.
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Icon Sincere
Up and Comer
Ring of Honor Icon
I am the Chaosbringer!
Posts: 270
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Post by Icon Sincere on May 19, 2008 8:35:50 GMT -6
I feel a need to clarify something here.
"Smart marks" pay to see WWE and whatever, but in relation to people who just tune into WWE, they are about 10%. 20% if I'm generous. They do not drive business in the same vein as the "marks" - the audience as a whole drives the WWE's finances and, regardless of how you percieve yourself, the fact is that John Cena is booed because it is a general universal hate for him that comes from most men because of various flaws in his on-screen character (booking isn't an issue, because I consider booking to be the actual matches - what John lacks is down to the creative staff and himself in his determination to stick with what pays him. Not, I have to say, that you can blame him if he's making the dough doing it like this).
People seem to be confusing the 18-30 male demographic with these "smart marks". They are seperate parts of the WWE's audience. Smart marks are people confined to the internet and dedicated sites. Take a look at the people who inhabit WWE's fan forums, or the people who use to inhabit the WWE Chat service they did (tried it once and decided an enema was a more preferable option). How many can you consider "smart marks"? I argue that we here are simply fans who aren't able to converse about wrestling the way we'd like who are able to do so over the internet. Power of the internet and all of that. If you took all the smart marks and got them not to watch WWE, all you'd notice is that the audiences probably wouldn't have those dumbasses in the front row so far up their asses that they believe they are actually not in any way laughable as they taunt a good guy because it's "cooler".
In relations to replacing Cena? You don't want to replace a guy like Cena because he is a company player. He makes money. Can they get someone else to fill his shoes? Sure. No-one is actually irreplaceable. They wouldn't ever want to be rid of Cena, but if they had no choice then I'm confident WWE would find a way to replace his revenue stream. CM Punk is on his way to do what Cena does in the future and you have to remember it's not like Cena walked in and immediately made the money for the company - he was pushed as hard as anyone they had ever pushed to be in that position. However, like Cena, it take time to do it and get a similar impact. WWE have no need nor I imagine any desire to change it. If it isn't broke, why break it? Cena's job is to make them and himself money and guess what? He does it.
And as a side note - not that it was brought up in here, but it has been before by people in other places and it has to be said - it's ridiculous to talk about the kids who like Cena as stupid because they are children. Of course they're stupid. I was stupid as a kid. Probably still a little bit dim right now.
Furthermore, the use of words like "smart marks" and "marks" renders any argument you have pointless because it proves you to be a complete and utterly useless human condom because it's people trying to put themselves on a pedestal where they eventually hope they can get close or even themselves involved in pro wrestling, which is something that sucks as much as gang rape because then we get things like TNA. I am not a smark mark or mark or any description. I am a fan. GZW use to have a good few people who were fans of wrestling and we'd all discuss wrestling and be happy. Would there be universal happiness? Of course not. WWE weren't always putting on solid shows like they had managed to do so in the last year or so.
But I digress.
And, in one last tidbit of opinion, professional wrestling was founded on the bases of making money when the carnie promoters use to get their top strongmen to fix their "fights" so they can go town to town and con the audiences. Hulk Hogan's entire history and legacy was founded on the basis that he made a shitload of money. You know what happens to companies that do it for their art? They get bought out by WWE and become syndicated shows on Sci-Fi. Be creative, but you got to make some money to carry on doing it.
Elijah
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Post by Rob on May 19, 2008 8:40:25 GMT -6
"Chavo uses the Frog Splash and the Trifecta in which he borrowed from Eddie."
Along with his personality, Rico, don't forget that. Fucking sponger...
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Post by Rico on May 19, 2008 9:29:11 GMT -6
then I guess you have to call Rey a sponger as well lol....
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Post by Vernon Vanderbilt on May 19, 2008 18:13:52 GMT -6
I'm feeling what Elijah had to say about the "mark/smark" phenomenon. Very lucid writing on the topic, sir. You get an exalt from me.
Speaking for myself, I enjoyed wrestling a lot more when I knew nothing about it. I remember seeing the Undertaker for the first time and thinking he was the ultimate badass, and quite possibly an actual dead guy brought back to life. He was my only (wrestling) hero for years, and it's all because I believed in him.
Finding out that wrestling is "fake"...well, as far as I'm concerned that's just as bad as hearing the same about Santa Clause. But what's done is done. I now have an appreciation for wrestling on its own athletic and aesthetic merits. I appreciate it, but it's not the same fun that it used to be. Ignorance is its own kind of bliss, I think.
So now I bitch about Cena, just like I bitched about Lashley and Goldberg and Hogan and Nash and (insert shitty company favourite of the moment here). I bitch about lame storylines that are rehashed versions of storylines from twenty years ago. I bitch because the Cade/Murdoch split was so incredibly predictable. I bitch because of all the non-wrestlers who feel compelled to get into the ring. I bitch when they give David Arquette a world title. I bitch because the cruiserweighs never get their fair share of tv time. I bitch and bitch and bitch about every trivial little thing that is boring or dumb or predictable about the wrestling biz.
But really...I'm just bitching because I had to get older, had to get wiser, and couldn't watch wrestling with innocent eyes anymore. But that's life.
And life's a bitch.
*rant finished*
Carry on.
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Post by Rico on May 19, 2008 19:01:53 GMT -6
well said there Vern....
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"Professor of psychological warfare and mastermind of mindgames!"-Alexander Hunt,color commentator
