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Post by Head Booker on Nov 23, 2010 8:59:45 GMT -6
with the events from RAW last night (if you didn't see it GO WATCH IT loser) who AND why is the current no#1 heel in the Evil Empire...
Tate
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Post by Rico on Nov 23, 2010 15:54:13 GMT -6
My thoughts were that its the Miz seeing as how the WWE has put the title on him, and not Barrett. But I do feel that the title should be on Barrett, but I like the both, but I do like Barrett better, but I do feel the Miz is the WWE's top heel, atleast in their opinion.
Another question I posed to Tate was
When was the last time the WWE put the World Championship on a Heel Wrestler without him being their top heel?
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Post by Rob on Nov 23, 2010 16:09:26 GMT -6
Damn, that's a good question. One that sticks out to me is Yokozuna. Good as he was, there were better heels when he had the title. What do you think?
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Post by Head Booker on Nov 23, 2010 16:14:57 GMT -6
I went with Barret/Nexus as the top heel...my argument is that just because a person holds the top title it doesn't make them the top face/heel...its almost like when Triple HHH was the number one guy period but The Rock was the one to hold the title to help him get over further...currently Barrett has off the chart heel heat right now (thanks Cena) compared to Miz...by now everyone should know I LOVE The Miz and definitely can foresee him bein' top heel one day but not while Nexus angle is so white hot...
Tate
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Post by Rico on Nov 23, 2010 18:23:06 GMT -6
yea but you forget that Triple H held on to the title the majority of the post Attitude Era. When Austin was Top Face, he almost always held the WWE Championship, then the Rock became the No1. Heel and thus he took hold of the WWE Championship. When Triple H and the Rock were feuding over the title, it was Triple H who came out on top, and the Rock only won the title from Triple H in 6 man match at King of the Ring. Im not sure if Rock ever defeated Triple H one on one for the WWE Championship. During the Era that Triple H and Rock Feuded, Triple H held the title 4 times and the Rock held it 2 times...
And when Yokozuna was Champ, he was the top heel. Flair had just left for WCW, so there were no other major heels except for Ted Dibiase and IRS and they didn't draw near as much heat as Yoko, simply because he played the Anti-USA gimmick.
Now in the WWE, the top Heel/Face usually holds the title, look at their past when Austin was top Face and Heel he held the Title, when Taker was the top Heel he was the Champ, same with Sid. The reason Sid was Champ was because HBK was hurt. Then look at the Brand Extension, the top Heel/Face of the particular brand is Champ....Orton was top Face on Raw, Kane top heel on SD.
Hogan, prime example, he almost always had the title, they tried to make Warrior the top guy, gave him the title and then he lost it to the top heel in Sgt. Slaughter, then Slaughter lost it to the top Face in Hogan. Savage was top Face when he defeated Flair, who was the top heel, then Savage lost it to Flair and Flair to Bret etc.
Thats just how it is in the WWE.
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Post by Head Booker on Nov 23, 2010 18:41:45 GMT -6
so you're sayin' that the title is used to help push the person that the company wants to be number one face/heel...Cena is by far the number one face but Orton was holdin' the title...I don't disgreee that The Miz is the champ is is bein' primed for the no#1 heel spot but CURRENTLY Barrett has the heat that dictates he be the one...
Tate
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Post by Rob on Nov 23, 2010 19:01:38 GMT -6
yea but you forget that Triple H held on to the title the majority of the post Attitude Era. When Austin was Top Face, he almost always held the WWE Championship, then the Rock became the No1. Heel and thus he took hold of the WWE Championship. When Triple H and the Rock were feuding over the title, it was Triple H who came out on top, and the Rock only won the title from Triple H in 6 man match at King of the Ring. Im not sure if Rock ever defeated Triple H one on one for the WWE Championship. During the Era that Triple H and Rock Feuded, Triple H held the title 4 times and the Rock held it 2 times... And when Yokozuna was Champ, he was the top heel. Flair had just left for WCW, so there were no other major heels except for Ted Dibiase and IRS and they didn't draw near as much heat as Yoko, simply because he played the Anti-USA gimmick. Now in the WWE, the top Heel/Face usually holds the title, look at their past when Austin was top Face and Heel he held the Title, when Taker was the top Heel he was the Champ, same with Sid. The reason Sid was Champ was because HBK was hurt. Then look at the Brand Extension, the top Heel/Face of the particular brand is Champ....Orton was top Face on Raw, Kane top heel on SD. Hogan, prime example, he almost always had the title, they tried to make Warrior the top guy, gave him the title and then he lost it to the top heel in Sgt. Slaughter, then Slaughter lost it to the top Face in Hogan. Savage was top Face when he defeated Flair, who was the top heel, then Savage lost it to Flair and Flair to Bret etc. Thats just how it is in the WWE. Well, Yoko could only do so much, most of the credit for the role should go to Mr. Fuji and Jim Cornette for doing the talking and cutting the promos that pissed off the fans. When he was champ, there were other, better heels, but I'm trying to remember who and I forgot who I had in mind, but Money Inc wasn't it. That'll bug me. Also, yes, Rock has beaten Triple H one on one for the title. One I can remember was a Backlash, but I don't remember the year. 2000, maybe? |
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Post by Head Booker on Nov 23, 2010 19:15:37 GMT -6
win/loss isn't/shouldn't even be a factor in the debate here though...  Tate |
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Post by Rob on Nov 23, 2010 19:41:32 GMT -6
It was a question I could actually answer, let me have my moment, damn you  |
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Post by Rico on Nov 23, 2010 19:48:17 GMT -6
it does when you use it to say the Rock was being used to get Triple H over.
But in the WWE the Title is World title is used in establishing someone as the top Face/Heel, why else would they have it, its not just for show and tell lol. Especially leading up to Mania, the top guy will always have the strap, thats how they've always done things in the 'E.
But I believe that Orton is more over than Cena is. Do you think if Rey wasn't the top Face on SD, before Edge got there, that he would have even got a sniff at the World title. He was the top face on SD, Taker was hurt and they had no one else to be that top guy, Kane was neutral at the time, then did a heel turn when Taker returned.
When Sheamus won the title, the WWE was trying to establish a new top heel and they did, by having him defeat the Top face at the time, who was holding the Championship. The title being on the Top guy may always happen in GZW, but it does in the World Wrestling Entertainment, just look at their Title History.
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Post by Head Booker on Nov 23, 2010 20:43:52 GMT -6
you honestly believe that Randy Orton is more over as a FACE...the TOP FACE at that...than John Cena...come on Rico...Cena is has transcended the title because of the fact he is the top good guy in WWE...no one commands the crowd like he does which was made evident on RAW last night...women and children are steadfast behind him not his finishin' move like Orton...
you are agreein' with what I said that the title is used as a tool to get over the person they want to push as the number one...there is no argument that The Miz is bein' PRIMED for the top heel spot... givin' him the title means they have the faith in his workrate that he will fulfill bein' the number one heel...the CURRENT number one heel is Wade Barrett the reason why he is locked in a feud with the companies number one face in John Cena...
as far as GZW...the top guy ISN'T always the World Champ...hell in the rules it states that the most over character won't always be the World Champ...no disrespect to you Rico but when Maxx held the title he wasn't the most over character qualified to hold the title...not to say he was a transition champ or anythin' but it was rewarded because if your constant workrate as an RPer and that bestowin' the title on the character would further get him over....
Tate
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Post by Rob on Nov 23, 2010 20:57:13 GMT -6
as far as GZW...the top guy ISN'T always the World Champ Exactly. Everyone knows it's Raze anyway |
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Post by Icon Lord Sean "Magic" Fiery on Nov 23, 2010 23:27:52 GMT -6
I think both are on such a high right now that they're equally hateable.
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Post by Rob on Nov 24, 2010 0:54:04 GMT -6
True. With WWE having such a high injury rate, maybe it's a good idea to have someone immediately available to take the "top heel" spot in case someone gets injured. Just saying
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Post by Rico on Nov 24, 2010 2:51:42 GMT -6
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