|
|
Post by Rico on Sept 26, 2006 8:59:02 GMT -6
will be interesting to see exactly what TNA does with him.
But you have to admit, if TNA wants to create their own identity and compete with the WWE, do it by creating your own stars. WCW attempted to do the same thing that TNA is doing now and revamping old WWE stars and trying to create their own product with them, it led to their demise. Most of TNA's roster is comprised of former WWE/WcW stars. AJ styles, Samoa Joe, Christopher Daniels, Abyss, Monty Brown are proby TNA's biggest stars that were not used by Vince.
|
|
|
|
Post by GGWF on Sept 26, 2006 9:41:55 GMT -6
I agree with Ed on this one. Angle sounds good; Kirk Angle sounds terrible!
M x
|
|
|
|
Post by Yankee Kid on Sept 26, 2006 9:43:06 GMT -6
And Monty Brown is on his way out of the comoany. Along with Ron Killings.
About Angle though, I'm pretty sure he just burned a bridge with WWE though. Which isn't good if he ever wants to go back.
|
|
|
|
Post by Head Booker on Sept 26, 2006 10:08:20 GMT -6
About Angle though, I'm pretty sure he just burned a bridge with WWE though. Which isn't good if he ever wants to go back. We're talkin' Emperor Vince and The Evil Empire Bud... NOBODY burns bridges with them..if the story is right...the timin' is right...and defiitely money both parties stand to make is right...Angle will/could wind back up in WWE... what sources are you quotin' concernin' Killings and Brown...even though it has been no secret the past two months that both have been discouraged about their usage in TNA... as a sidenote has anyone thought that perhaps Vince is "helpin'" out TNA much like he did with the original ECW and most currently Ring of Honor... |
|
|
|
Post by journeyman on Sept 26, 2006 10:43:31 GMT -6
Technically, WWE made very few of its stars if you consider that the vasy majority of its major stars (including hogan) from the past started elsewhere. Hogan was a huge name in other territories before vince bought him and gave him national exposure, but he didnt grow hogan himself.
WCW had nash and hall before WWF gave them the push to make them famous.
WCW had H3 before WWF.
WWF didn't grow regal, finley, austin, foley, flair, macho man, ultimate warrior, edge, RVD, booker, benoit, eddie guerrero, chavo, rey.....hell, most of the WWE roster was taken from elsewhere.
Austin was an underused WCW wrestler who got given a push.
The same goes for Foley, Benoit, H3 and to some extent nash and hall when they originally came from wcw.
I'd say WCW and WWF had an equal amount of transfers, but WCW did it on a big scale and didn't even try to hide who they were hiring, which imho was a smart move.
The only reason why it's now considered as 'taking wwe's stars' is because theyre the only company with national exposure. WWE, however, doesn't get derided as much for 'taking' indy workers. Which is odd, because 'taking' spanky from zero-1 (which has a weekly show on TWC -or at least it did) isn't classed as wwe taking stars from zero 1.
TNA is doing the same as every wrestling company. They're hiring free agents with some name value and letting them do their job.
And when you think about it, WWE don't even make their own stars. They give developmental contracts to indy workers and OVW makes them. OVW gives them a gimmick, teaches them how to do what they do, and then WWE calls them up and ruins it.
But when it all comes down to it, the wrestlers make themselves stars. CM punk made CM punk. Nobody, not WWECW, OVW, ROH, TNA can take credit for it.
On a side note, I counted 18 of 52 wrestlers having formerly worked for WCW/WWE. It's a tenuous amount because you could argue that the likes of Gail Kim, shane douglas didn't make enough of an impact in their stints to count as them actually being recognisible as wrestlers FROM wwe/wcw to the casual fan.
Then there are the likes of AJ,Low Ki, shark boy, chris daniels et al who have worked velocity tapings, dark matches and other such one shot deals for the former big 2. I didnt count them for that basis.
And Jarret is a shady one, because did didnt hire himself as a former 'big name' he's there because of his ownership.
In closing: The only way a company can 'make' stars is by giving a wrestler with sufficient talent a platform to do something that they're good at.
WWE no longer does that. Instead, it crushes the talent from them and makes them conform.
At least TNA is giving the less used wrestlers from wwe, specifically xtian, rhino and spike the chance to sink or swim on their own rather than chosing wwe's policy of equipping them with cement shoes first.
|
|
|
|
Post by Yankee Kid on Sept 26, 2006 10:58:19 GMT -6
Granted Hall & Nash did wrestle in WCW before WWF, they were nobodies. Oz & The Diamond Stud, nobody cared about them. But when they became Razor Ramon and Deisel, they became huge stars. And granted Hogan was a big star in the territories before WWF used him also, without WWF he would not have became what he has. Same compared to Sting in WCW, or Ric Flair to NWA.
|
|
|
|
Post by Head Booker on Sept 26, 2006 11:04:47 GMT -6
well spoken Ed...I think the only wrestler that is a "homegrown" WWE star is/was The Rock...just FYI...Hogan and Hall both got their fame from Nick Bockwinkle's old company AWA...they used to have a daily show on ESPN back when I was a kid...
as far as Rico's comments concernin' TNA gettin' their own identity...many people are forgettin' that TNA isn't just some company that has been existence for the past two years...this is the same company that started in 2002 WITHOUT a television deal (the lifeblood for a national wrestlin' company to succeed)...held weekly pay-per-view shows...separated itself from the NWA...uses a hexagon ring versus four sided one...have two different rampways (one for heels the other for faces)...and of course the X-Division...those are markings that clearly separate them from the competition...just like a really company (which it is expect for it's a media one) it takes time break out of the red (whether that be money...talent...storylines)...
I just honestly think that us "smarks" need to take a step back and don't get caught up in the "WWE vs. TNA" aspect everyone wants to happen...the "Monday Night Wars" are dead and gone...will we see them ever again...maybe maybe not...just simply allowin' another avenue for workers to work on and be seen should be viewed as a good thing for the business...
Tate
|
|
|
|
Post by Rico on Sept 26, 2006 11:34:24 GMT -6
Ed while you have a good point, yankee pointed out that no one even cared about them when they were the Diamond Stud, Oz, Jean Paul Lafette stunning steve austin, nor Mark Callis, yes you forgot that Taker was in Wcw before he went to the wwf/e.
But still Vince took them, and made them bigger than anyone could ever imagine. the Characters he came up with, Undertaker, The Ultimate Warrior who used to be the Dingo Warrior, Stone Cold, those characters are some of his biggest and best pieces of work.
Not to take anything away from TNA, but repackaging the likes of Hall, Nash, Sting, Scott Steiner, Rick Steiner, Roddy Piper, Raven, Spike Dudley, Dudley Boys(who were a helluva lot better in ECW than anywhere else), Rhino and other past wwe/wcw/ecw stars just won't cut it.
They need to let their own home grown talent show, Aj styles, AMW, Christopher Daniels, Abyss, Monty Brown(whom is unhappy) and the others in the X-Division. It's ok to have fomer wwe/wcw/ecw stars there for drawing power, but don't let them overshadow your very own product. JJ just needs to take a step back, allow others to shine in the Main Event scene and have him to just concentrate on backstage stuff.
The ratings war was good because it force each company to produce fresh storylines. It will be back, but it will take it a few years to get there, then maybe just maybe John Cena will finally show to the wwe that he just can't wrestle....on second thought just send Cena to TNA and prevent the ratings war from happening lol.
|
|
|
|
Post by journeyman on Sept 26, 2006 12:46:29 GMT -6
I didn't forget about taker, but if i included everyone, I would still be typing :-\.
What I'm saying is that vince took people, who were considered nobodies (even though a LOT of people were stunning steve austin fans, and he was extremely over, but booked badly) and allowed them to perform to their potential and thus these stars were born.
You yourself are conceding that apparent mid carders for life can become huge stars given the opportunity, yet are criticising TNA for using stars who are no longer with WWE for the same purpose. Christian and rhino were mid carders, but are being given the chance to try and become geniune main event level wrestlers. The risk is that there will be those who fail, but the rewards could be a performer like the rock or stone cold.
TNA is taking the risk with wwe's mid card (although as stated earlier, the actual ratio of former wwe performers on the is relatively small) and we need to wait and see if it will pay off. TNA would be crazy to pass up experienced wrestlers. And even if it doesnt always make great TV, TNA has put most of the nostalgia acts to good use.
Yes, sting has overstayed his welcome, but Scott steiner actually worked hard to put Joe over.
Nash has made very entertaining TV with Alex Shelley.
Jim Cornette is a very good talker who knows his role and can pull it off AND give it legitimacy.
And while doing that, they ARE pushing their 'home grown' guys.
TNA is only doing what makes sense in the current climate. The casual fan will still look at TNA and say 'who are these guys? why do I care?'
If they see Kurt/Kirk/James T Angle or the dudleyz or Sting, they'll go 'crikey, I know them. What are they doing? Hey, that AJ styles is pretty good. I like this" at which point, theyve got the casual viewer.
It'll take time, but it must be working if theyve got a prime time deal. People need to stop looking at people as 'Ex wwe' guys and look at the bigger picture, because with only one big brand on TV, the only new faces youre likely to recognise will be 'Ex WWE'. And if youre only looking at it like that, then youre missing the things that matter.
|
|
|
|
Post by The Root on Sept 26, 2006 12:56:44 GMT -6
Angle could take a cue from Kurt Cobain and call himself Kurdt Angle.
|
|
Zachary Sharp
Main Event
2010 Ring of Honor Icon
"The Next Level In Wrestling"
Posts: 1,955
|
Post by Zachary Sharp on Sept 26, 2006 13:28:44 GMT -6
I must have missed something... is he not allowed to call himself Kurt Angle?
Alex
|
|
|
|
Post by Head Booker on Sept 26, 2006 13:46:55 GMT -6
|
|
Zachary Sharp
Main Event
2010 Ring of Honor Icon
"The Next Level In Wrestling"
Posts: 1,955
|
Post by Zachary Sharp on Sept 26, 2006 14:07:12 GMT -6
...well that's fun...
Alex
|
|
|
|
Post by Icon Lord Sean "Magic" Fiery on Sept 26, 2006 14:23:36 GMT -6
They should just stick with Angle. Same with the whole "Christian Cage" bit... It sounds REALLY retarded.
|
|
|
|
Post by Rico on Sept 26, 2006 18:17:09 GMT -6
Kirk Angle  I think the WWE will soon go after angle for breaking the no-compete clause, even though he was released. I think they have to go 6 months or so before they can compete anywhere, but as I stated on the other page, something just doesn't seem right about him jumpin to TNA so damn quick |
|
